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Trig Radio Install

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Trig Radio Install

Postby duncanlogan » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:38 pm

Hello Gents,

Has anyone used the space under the seats in the Jab to install a radio/transponder equipment, specifically Trig ? See pic attached.

This space is more than big enough to fit the units.

I want to upgrade my radio to a TRig TY91 , install the unit under the seat and then route the cables through the side into the main spine part where the rudder/elevator controls , fuel pipe and antenna are located, in order to get the cables up to the dash for the remote radio head.

Has anyone done anything similar with this storage space? And would there be any issue s with drilling the fibreglass for routing cables? It seems very thin and flimsy so I know its not structural.
Cheers
Duncan
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Re: Trig Radio Install

Postby Garyo » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:00 pm

Duncan
That sounds like a great idea
Gary
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Re: Trig Radio Install

Postby Steevo » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:24 pm

Be very careful with a Trig in a Jab. Trig are great radios but they themselves admit they have issues with Jab engines. It’s a bit hit and miss. I have contacted Trig a couple of times with the last time just a couple of weeks ago. I have a Trig TY-91 here and it has been tried in 2 Jabs and produces interference that is impossible to stop. It works fine in any other aircraft.

Trigs response to me was they have had reports and are aware of issues with the radio and Jabiru engines. They claim they are presently bench testing the Trig against other radios to find out why the issue is affecting the Trig and not other radios. I had to replace the Trig with another radio (Dittel KRT2 in my case) which works perfectly.

If you want to investigate further, I can give you the name and contact details of the Trig support person who I spoke to.

They did suggest some possible solutions to me but none of them worked. There have also been a couple of posts on this forum with people having the same issues in their Jab with a Trig radio.

I am also not convinced, now days, of the advantages of a 2-piece radio. When I used to install radios a while ago, they were big and bulky and since the Jab panel is not very deep, they could touch the firewall before the panel was right back. Now days, the radios are much shorter and will go in the panels with no issues. All they are using is a few inches of empty air at the back of the panel.

With the Trig, not only do you have to have a hole in the panel the same size as any other radio, but you then have to find another location for the main unit. Then you have to run power and link cable to the unit and, depending where your headset sockets are, back up again to the panel.

I went for Trig as I know that the Jab engine was electrically, very noisy. My plan was to put the main unit as far back away from the engine as possible. Unfortunately, all I achieved was weeks of work trying to track down severe and unpredictable interference problems that turn out to be a known issue to Trig. I also wanted the Trig because they excel in Transponders and are a British company.

But to answer your question, you can mount the unit under the seat and it is safe to drill.
Jabiru J160 2009
PS Engineering PM3000 Intercom
Trig TT22 Mode S Transponder
Trig TY91 Radio
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Re: Trig Radio Install

Postby Steevo » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:43 pm

This is the reply from Trig support.

Hi Steve,

Thanks for your email.

We have noticed some issues with Jabiru engines causing radio breakthrough. In some cases, like your aircraft, it is simply a case of switching to a radio that was a little more deaf due to manufacturing tolerances. We have an ongoing engineering project to try and isolate this noise and block it out. Some Jabiru owners have found success in using ferrite beads on the antenna coax, something like:

http://uk.farnell.com/wurth-elektronik/ ... price=true

If you want something that clips on instead; http://uk.farnell.com/fair-rite/0431164 ... dp/1463447

Some Jabiru owners have also reported a noise reduction by shielding the ignition leads.

Can you confirm the model of the unit that works okay? I would love to do a side-by-side comparison on them.

I hope this helps, and I look forward to hearing how you get on.

All the best,

James Forbes
Customer Support Manager

Trig Avionics Limited
Heriot Watt Research Park
Riccarton, Edinburgh EH14 4AP, UK
Tel: +44 131 449 8810 (switchboard)
Tel: +44 131 449 8817 (direct line)
http://www.trig-avionics.com
Jabiru J160 2009
PS Engineering PM3000 Intercom
Trig TT22 Mode S Transponder
Trig TY91 Radio
Flight Data Systems GD-40 CO Monitoring
PoweFlarm Core
PilotAware
Garmin 496 GPS and SkyDemon
MGL Xtreme EMS
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Re: Trig Radio Install

Postby duncanlogan » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:53 pm

Hi Steve

I am aware the issues Trig are having with the ty96 at the moment. Yesterday I had James ,Martin and David from Trig carrying out tests on my jab and another member at our clubs jabiru. I received an email a month ago from Trig asking if we could help as we are local and I stay in Edinburgh myself only 15 min from Trigs HQ.
My jab has the afteMarket Honda coils. And Gordon’s still has the original coils from the factory. They spent all day carrying out checks at different rev settings. They believe it’s just a software issue and most complaints have been when aircrafts are on climb out. The are planning a software upgrade which will create a better screen.
The tests showed that the different coils produced the same amount of interference. There was slightly more spikes from mine.

I am not aware of anyone having issues with the smaller ty21 ????
The dittel defo looks good value for money . Like I say I’m 15 min on way to trig and 15 min the other to harry Mendelssohn s shop. So I would be covered for any support I would need.
My plan is to link the radio and transponder when I buy it to my Garmin AERA 500.

Thanks for the advice about the small seating space and drilling.
Dunc
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Re: Trig Radio Install

Postby duncanlogan » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:57 pm

Only other issue at the moment is that everywhere seems sold out of the dittel radio and transponder as its very good value for money. Might just be my ocd.but I wanted to use the same manufacturer for both pieces so it makes the dash look smarter. :D
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Re: Trig Radio Install

Postby Steevo » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:34 pm

For me, the Trig radio issues I have seen have been much more serious than just climb out. I have installed quite a few Trigs now both the Transponders and Radios. The transponders have been absolutely bullet proof. The Trig radio in a metal airframe I have also had no issues with. But in a composite structure there have been constant interference issues.

The issues I have seen have been a burst of interference breaking through the squelch every 20 to 30 seconds and lasting for about 5 seconds. This lasts all the time while the engine is running and cannot be squelched out. If you are using the inbuilt intercom then you cannot even turn it off and have to suffer it for the entire flight. The one I have here I keep for testing purposes along with a Dittel and a Funke ATR833. Trig have a fantastic name both for quality and customer service and I do not have a bad word to say about them in all the dealings I have had with them. In fact, when I broke one of the plastic brackets that allow the Trig head to go in to a 57mm panel hole, they sent me out one next day free of charge even though the breakage was my fault.

But certainly with the TY-91 I have not been impressed for a number of reasons and would certainly be cautious recommending them to the people I do avionics work for. The Dittel is by no means perfect, and neither is the Funke but overall, I would rate them higher overall for performance, ease of installation and in a lot of cases compatibility with current installations. Unfortunately, I cannot say the same regarding Dittel or Funke customer service and Trig win by miles in that respect.

I cannot really comment on the Dittel transponder as I have not dealt with them and questions I have asked TQ Avionics have not really been answered fully, especially regarding their ADS-B compatibility with uncertified GPS.

Trig transponders win hands down over any of the other transponders I have installed. I just wish Trig made a single unit transponder the same as the TT21/22 (I.e. 57mm). In a lot of cases the 2-piece setup makes for an unnecessarily complicated install. I appreciate it has its uses in some installs
Jabiru J160 2009
PS Engineering PM3000 Intercom
Trig TT22 Mode S Transponder
Trig TY91 Radio
Flight Data Systems GD-40 CO Monitoring
PoweFlarm Core
PilotAware
Garmin 496 GPS and SkyDemon
MGL Xtreme EMS
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Re: Trig Radio Install

Postby duncanlogan » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:12 am

Thanks Steve for all your reviews and feedback. This certainly helps cement my decision to buy the trig transponder. :D
I will need to re think the radio situation. Strange that when I met Trig they didn't mention any issues with there TY91 radio, the only radio they brought with them to site was the TY96.

To everyone else on this forum, is there anyone out there that has installed a trig ty91 in a jabiru with no issues?
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Re: Trig Radio Install

Postby Steevo » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:04 am

Please do your own investigation. Trig are obviously on the case and they may well just bring out a software update and all is sorted. I originally bought the TY-91 on the strength of the transponder and I, like you, wanted the same manufacturer for both. I first reported the Trig problem just over a year ago. A member on here also reported it just before me and Trig put a software update on it.

He may well reply to this and tell you his saga. I don’t think he ever sorted it. But I have seen the TY-91 working well in other aircraft. It does seem to be a Jab engine in a composite airframe and even then, not all.

The only comments I will make if you are upgrading from another radio is don’t expect a straight swap. The screws for the Trig head are tiny so if you are putting it in the same panel hole as the previous radio, the screws go straight through the holes so you have to make a bezel or put washers on the screws. I make a bezel with a 3D printer. I tried sourcing bigger head screws to no avail, they are imperial size as well so not easy to source in the UK. Also the Trig uses a TNC connector rather than the standard BNC so you either have to cut the connector off the coax and replace or use an adapter.
Jabiru J160 2009
PS Engineering PM3000 Intercom
Trig TT22 Mode S Transponder
Trig TY91 Radio
Flight Data Systems GD-40 CO Monitoring
PoweFlarm Core
PilotAware
Garmin 496 GPS and SkyDemon
MGL Xtreme EMS
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Steevo
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Re: Trig Radio Install

Postby Garyo » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:19 am

Also when fitting the radio, use a recom dc to dc convertor in the line, this gives the radio lots of protection and cuts out a lot of noise. Ensure the recom is good for at least 1.5 amp pull.

I used 1 in my jab to eliminate lots of background noise in the headsets it worked a treat
Former Owner of
G-OMER
Jabiru 450 UL
Engine serial 1041
1 CHT sensor on No 4 under plug
No Exhaust temp sensors
No glass panel
No xponder
Microair radio
No bells and whistles
User avatar
Garyo
Site Admin
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Posts: 316
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